Hosting

[Recon]

Hi, I seen you guys have a company you recommend now which is cloud base.  Now cloud base hosting always has bothered me in the past and been not reliable for MMORPG.  Now I will admit its been a bit since I messed with cloud base. So my question.  

 

What are users using for the typical  Atavism games now.   Which hard ware, and which company.  I know this can depend on resources, and so forth, but you can give me a broad reply, just to give me an idea.   I have ran some decent size games from my basement for years and also know of Steam games that also do. So, its something I do for testing regardless, and even had for production. But I had used some companies in the past for larger scale MMO's .  But, its been awhile since I worked on some larger scale games and messed with these hosting companies, so what are you recommending to your users these days.  From more of a low end and higher end type game. 

I have used Game lift, AWS, but some of them can get expensive.   So, curious if you happen to know some less expensive hosting and reliable ones as well.  Which has US hosting and EU hosting, which is the two I plan to support. Thanks.

 

Does Atavism require a dedicated server??  or has anyone used Steam SDK ??  ( I  have used Steam for other games, SDK) That is for match making and so forth.

  I been thinking of making a 4 player co-op type game and using Atavism.   but not interested in running a dedicated server, unless I can find one cheap enough.  but strong enough for my use.  any thoughts ?  ( I rather not to save costs. )

 

 

also do you have any  users, using Atavism, just to make RPG's rather than an MMORPG?   just curious. 

 

:PS i'm not much of a backend guy, more of a front end, so that was another reason I had gotten ATAVISM, to expand some of my experience more on the networking side. since I'm more of a programmer and artist, not a net coder, but I been trying to spend some time to learn this more. . so any suggestions for the above questions would be great. 

 

[Martin (Dragonsan)]

It depends on the scope.

We have Atavism Cloud Service which is based on the North Networking infrastructure. They have servers in the US and EU, and IMHO prices are really good and affordable, especially for a start, development, and test. At a later stage, I would recommend you to use some bare metal hardware, as Virtualization always has some overhead and it's less efficient than the hardware itself.

Another company that we are using from time to time is Netcup they have decent prices, a long time ago, they had much better service, but still, it's a good option. In the end, we are using Hetzner if necessary, mostly with their bare metal options but again, they have similar issues like Netcup, their data centers are in Germany and Finland, so no US coverage.

it's definitely possible to implement some Steam elements for purchases and such, not sure about others.

If you would want to have many 4 players servers then you can start from the Atavism Cloud and if you will lack server resources, you can move your database and files somewhere else.

Even it's possible to use Atavism for RPG, I would use a different package. Lately one of the Atavism users developed something like this, which looks very promising https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/game-toolkits/rpg-builder-177657

 

 

[Recon]

2 hours ago, Martin (Killersan) said:

 

 

It depends on the scope.

We have Atavism Cloud Service which is based on the North Networking infrastructure. They have servers in the US and EU, and IMHO prices are really good and affordable, especially for a start, development, and test. At a later stage, I would recommend you to use some bare metal hardware, as Virtualization always has some overhead and it's less efficient than the hardware itself.

Another company that we are using from time to time is Netcup they have decent prices, a long time ago, they had much better service, but still, it's a good option. In the end, we are using Hetzner if necessary, mostly with their bare metal options but again, they have similar issues like Netcup, their data centers are in Germany and Finland, so no US coverage.

it's definitely possible to implement some Steam elements for purchases and such, not sure about others.

If you would want to have many 4 players servers then you can start from the Atavism Cloud and if you will lack server resources, you can move your database and files somewhere else.

Even it's possible to use Atavism for RPG, I would use a different package. Lately one of the Atavism users developed something like this, which looks very promising https://assetstore.unity.com/packages/tools/game-toolkits/rpg-builder-177657

 

 

nah I have my own server for testing, and start, its the later date that what I was concerned about, if I made something larger but I was thinking of also making something else smaller scale like Gloria Victus 1/4 scale  of what that game is.  , but was more of less looking for a short cut for some of the net coding aspects.  I have used Photon and made our own as well in the past when I worked with my networking partners.  Now I'm not working with them so I was more or less looking for, a short cut. 

Thanks for the suggestion.   I was surprised to not see anything long term, since when making an MMOROG, you need to be thinking long term..   I worked on a smaller indie, MMORPG which is still out today, and the server costs is what hurt the most.    and yes needed alot of power, so that is why I wanted to make something about a 1/4 scale of a true MMORPG.  even if not an RPG 4 player co-op, or something that is more or less a 100 players per server.     Not interested in a huge scale MMORPG, I know what is involved and its a huge task, that takes years to make with a team..  I have no interest in that at all anymore.:

 

That is fine I will just keep Atavism as a base to keep my net coding skills up and just use it as just that to finish making my own. so for now I WILL just use ATAVISM as a tool to learn from on the net coding side which was always my weakness.   I have all the other areas covered..    

 

    Unreal I was able to easily create my own networking , and using the new EOS that Epic has released.     I have done the same with Steam in the past as well  , but I was more or less looking to short cut some of the heavy lifting , for Unity  that don't seem that will happen. ( it was worth a try.)  

 

 

 

PS: I normally don't buy kits since most are useless to me, and more for newbies and users to who lack  the skills. So sadly, Atavism may be a bust for me.   I mainly wanted it to short cut some of the net working and to learn from. on the net coding side. and since I'm working alone.  but       Keep up the good work anyways. it don't seem to be what I need.   I will still dig into it and such, in the future , if I ever want to make such a game. ... but MMORPG's aren't as popular and I wasn't really interested in making one. ( I worked on two before and both released  ,they are a huge under taken, I was hoping to be able to make something smaller with Atavism.  Oh well...\

I have all of the RPG stuff coded, custom data bases, inventory, quests etc over the years. with  Unity.. So that RPG kit you mention, is more or less for someone starting out. a non coder. I been a programmer for 30 years, so I will just need to take the time to push my net coding skills now since I never had the time as much before so I will still dig into Atavism and use it possible as a tool push my net coding skills and just do some stuff from my home server to get some use out of it. Other wise it sounds like it don't be worth making anything with it, that i'm interested in anymore.   I ran a community for MMORPG 's for over 17 years, its not what it was anymore sadly.... the social aspects and games like Asheron Call, Ultima, even if made today, kids today would never play, because they want thing handed to them,  SO honestly, I recommend to think about having Atavism in a way folks can make other kinds of games .   Having the non target combat is a good start.      

 

Fallen Earth, was a fun MMOROG, and it has guns, and melee.    Mortal Online, 1, and 2 is releasing soon is a fun one as well, all are sand boxes.   but for a solo person, no way could I afford thousands in server costs.   Which is part of a problem for these larger games.    So just a thought I could see other leveraging parts of Atavism for other kinds of games. if the networking was there.  EVEN in a generic level.  I know you had said before it could be done, but not out of the box. so I will still look into it, to see if I can still leverage it Some how, most things in Atavism as far as plug ins I would not use anyways.  I wanted more or less for the back end, networking side.  

 

My opinion you did a great job Martin not bashing you of course, disappointed it may not be a good fit for what I planned to do possible.   I recommend to have Atavism is a way that other game types can be made, for experienced coders, artists as well, since most games devs are experienced coders or artist, but lack the net working skills.     That is what is the most common.  Alot of my net coding ex-partners, where terrible artist and could not design to save there lives, but where fantastic net coders.   So if Atavism found that middle ground, I think it could blow up to be 100 times more popular that it already is. I have no regrets that I bought it.  before  and even paid Maint, so I will still get some use out of it some how. but more disappointed I may not be able to use for any of the games I had planned.    So its what I recommend.  and having the non target combat is a good start.    But I would consider, targeting other genres as well possible.   Alot of folks want to make games with out a DS..  Since its so costly. 

[Martin (Dragonsan)]

Thank you for the comprehensive feedback.

Non-target combat is supported out of the box in Atavism, and it was expanded in 10.2.x version by adding nearly 50 features only for combat like stealth mode, shields that can absorb or reflect damage, traps, AoE on location, projectile and AoE movements speed simulated on the server to evade them, triggers on actions, like invoke something on a critical hit, on damage, on evade, on heal, etc. Basically, it brings combat to a whole new level.

As for other games, the one you mentioned is more like a MOBA. For these types of games, you won't need scalable networking, as usually, you will have X vs X players where X is like 5, 10, or 15 players most of the time. This way you would need a totally networking design in my opinion, where players would be in the Lobby/Proxy server and after they would sign in to play specific game mode, the proxy would redirect them to the server on which the battle would be handled, and after the battle, they would go back to the proxy. This way you don't have hundreds r thousands of players in the real game, but rather just on chat/proxy/lobby server. Atavism has part of this, as there is arena functionality, where you are signing in to join the battle, and when both teams are filled with players, Atavism will teleport players to the arena where they can fight each other team vs team. After the battle, they will be moved to the world instance.

As for the MMO, starting with thousands of players can be expensive, but you can try to cover your expenses using pre-order of your game or in-game goods, items, currency, or just cosmetics, and then scale your server after your game will generate more income. This way also you will have a more generic and organic user base rather than the typical hype on start only.