Nothing but Bugs

[Skeeter135]

I have had nothing but bugs. This is still in early alpha stages and should not be stole yet. From installing to actually working with it I have had problems at every corner. I have followed the out of date tutorials a hundred times and still get the same errors. For an example, today I thought I would add in some armors, I followed the guide and the UMAs don't show. If I do a ./world.sh -v -C restart , as instructed in a video, to restart the world database I cannot login to a character I made before or delete them. If I want to change multiple things in the atavism unity editor I have to close it each time. Meaning if I wanted to change let's say two items, I change the first, close the window, then I can change the second. The documentation that you do have on the wiki has no useful information in it. It just states a brief description of it with most of the time it says that it isn't working properly yet. Everything that is needed in a MMO kit is not there and if you want it you need to create your own plugin for which has no actually documentation and costs an additional $200. All the starter package gets you is a buggy skin of the game that YOU have made. Maybe at most should cost $20 not the $70 that you are asking for. The support isn't helpful at all, which most of the time says you need a plugin for it or look at the tutorials that are made before. I might check back in a few months to see if it has improved at all but I doubt it.

[Netsun]

``most of the time says you need a plugin for it``

 

Ya sorry to say true thing ^^

 

And i think you mostly just need more skill in programin, you CANT make a game whitout any programing skill, sorry but it true.

 

If you think that work only 20$ i think you dont know all the work to make a java server. at 270$ for the source it like you pay 1 men 2$/hour to make that.

[sooms]

Sorry you've had so many problems getting things going. We are focusing the vast majority of our time at the moment on trying to improve the systems to make them much easier to use and extend. I think you'll have much more luck with future updates.

[Martin (Dragonsan)]

I think that many people are experiencing some problems and the lost position of most of them is because they are not able to make a change in source because they own only standard license and they don't have access to the AGIS code, which is the clue of the server.

 

Still You guys have to admit, that Atavism team are trying to make things better and better and their effort are far from related to that small price for such piece of software.

 

I have to admit that till 2.5 Atavism in standard version wasn't useful at all, because of hard coded level limit or critical error in items calculations while getting level up and few other things that some of users just weren't able to correct without proper access to the code. In my opinion that is the clue of the problem.

 

If You are creating serious game on atavism then You should be aware that it is some kind of beta with major bugs and without at least veteran license and programming skills in Your dev team You won't be able to patch it or implement new features by Yourself so You need to do some time overhead in Your schedule to prevent frustration.

Atavism team is implementing new features which is related to new bugs, this is normal in software business, so please be patient, patient and once more.... patient and You will be rewarded

 

If you are creating game for fun and this is Your hobby, then Atavism in present version is for You in any version.

 

Lets try to build up more this community and help them out with testing because they put a lot of effort in it and I'm more than sure that they are investing more in this solution than earning from licenses.

[bbautista]

``most of the time says you need a plugin for it``

 

Ya sorry to say true thing ^^

 

And i think you mostly just need more skill in programin, you CANT make a game whitout any programing skill, sorry but it true.

 

If you think that work only 20$ i think you dont know all the work to make a java server. at 270$ for the source it like you pay 1 men 2$/hour to make that.

 

I have to chime in here.. This customer/developer asked a question.. you didnt answer his question.. basically what you did is you told him he CANT do something. I have to tell you that you have the wrong attitude here. You dont know what people can or cant do. I was told when i started this project that I CANT make models because I didnt know modeling software or im not a programmer and I didnt take years of college. I can model just as good as the next person now and it really didnt take me that long to learn. I am still learning from trial or error. Please stop discouraging people.

 

5 years ago people with your attitude also said.. you can not have a MMO.. its impossible. well here we are.. again please do not make this forum a way for you to discourage people or talk down on them because they do not have the skills that you feel you have. If you cant help anyone.. then dont respond.

 

my two cents whether you like it or not

[AlanGreyjoy]

I have had nothing but bugs. This is still in early alpha stages and should not be stole yet. From installing to actually working with it I have had problems at every corner. I have followed the out of date tutorials a hundred times and still get the same errors. For an example, today I thought I would add in some armors, I followed the guide and the UMAs don't show. If I do a ./world.sh -v -C restart , as instructed in a video, to restart the world database I cannot login to a character I made before or delete them. If I want to change multiple things in the atavism unity editor I have to close it each time. Meaning if I wanted to change let's say two items, I change the first, close the window, then I can change the second. The documentation that you do have on the wiki has no useful information in it. It just states a brief description of it with most of the time it says that it isn't working properly yet. Everything that is needed in a MMO kit is not there and if you want it you need to create your own plugin for which has no actually documentation and costs an additional $200. All the starter package gets you is a buggy skin of the game that YOU have made. Maybe at most should cost $20 not the $70 that you are asking for. The support isn't helpful at all, which most of the time says you need a plugin for it or look at the tutorials that are made before. I might check back in a few months to see if it has improved at all but I doubt it.

 

 

Don't let the door hit ya, where the good Lord split ya!

 

Sorry.. had to

[bbautista]

so mean lol

[AlanGreyjoy]

so mean lol

 

Nah... He's not the first person to go on a rant like this... and he won't be the last.

People like him expect to make the next WoW for the price of a nice dinner... at Red Lobster or something lol.

 

 

The only thing I wish Jac would do, was include "MUST KNOW UNITY!!!" in the description.

 

 

 

 

I know I came off strong... but I am always the one to back up Jac, Andrew, and Jean. Even on the unity forum page. Nothing like pouring all your heart into a project, grinning from ear to ear over it. Sharing it with the world.... and for some immature punk to step all over it. . . As if they could do ANY of it, better.

 

I paid for the vet license... cause I knew exactly what I was getting. A MMORPG framework and ENDLESS amounts of updates to it. I also wanted to make my own plugins for it as well. (but that's not until atavism as at full release)

 

And because of Atavism, I am now apart of a 50+ man team, that is working on a massive mmo

[Skeeter135]

OK first of all, I didn't except to create the next wow or anything like that. As I stated in the unity forum before I bought this I was skeptical. This here proves my point. It's not my skills that is this the problem. I followed the tutorial and still had bugs. I was told from day one that I couldn't do x because I needed to create a plugin for it. What the starter package gives you is a buggy skin that you have already made. The quality of the product is worth $20 even though the quantity of hours is worth more. Its like going to red lobster ordering a $70 meal of lobster and getting a McDonald's cheeseburger. The only thing I excepted was for the program to actually work. By saying that I'm not the first nor the last proves that you aren't fixing the important things first. Stop assuming that people don't know how to do something when you don't know them, it's unprofessional.

[bbautista]

Hey man.. dont worry about some of these haters on here that expect you to be a coding god.

 

You are a customer is how I see it. Most here will help you if you have questions. Most here will tell you that the software does have a lot of work to be done on it. Keep in mind there are things that still needs to be added and fixed, so please be patient.

 

Sooms is really good at explaining things and understands and without feedback from customers he cannot better the software for all of us.

 

Again, dont let some of these guys tear you down. You probably bought this software for the same reason I did and that was for a hobby.. and not to be the next world of warcraft

[AlanGreyjoy]

OK first of all, I didn't except to create the next wow or anything like that. As I stated in the unity forum before I bought this I was skeptical. This here proves my point. It's not my skills that is this the problem. I followed the tutorial and still had bugs. I was told from day one that I couldn't do x because I needed to create a plugin for it. What the starter package gives you is a buggy skin that you have already made. The quality of the product is worth $20 even though the quantity of hours is worth more. Its like going to red lobster ordering a $70 meal of lobster and getting a McDonald's cheeseburger. The only thing I excepted was for the program to actually work. By saying that I'm not the first nor the last proves that you aren't fixing the important things first. Stop assuming that people don't know how to do something when you don't know them, it's unprofessional.

 

You've provided incompetence and ignorance.

 

Me and PLENTY of other people rarely have any problems using Atavism. Sure there are bugs, but nothing game breaking. Not only that... It would take you at least a year to make a full size MMO map. Longer if you're making the models yourself.

 

So I doubt.. no... I KNOW you're not waiting on Atavism for anything. Take a seat, and build your world first. There are some MMO's using Atavism that are doing 40Kx40K maps... and that's with a large team of modelers, texture artists, animators... the list goes on.

[Dakora]

What I think is funny is in the begining they were only going to have a few plugins. As time moved on more and more stuff got added to the list. If anything everyone should be greatful to Jacques, Andrew and Jean for there hard work and time given to this project. From a basic frame work to levels, skills, crafting system, Mail system, Nav Mesh, Quests, loot drops, sales npc, Mounts the list goes on and on. You will not find any other engine out there that will offer all this for the price. Not only that the ones out there want you to code everything yourself. ( Esenthel engine, Hero Engine.. on and on).

 

Atavism is in Beta. Everyone knows that. This is one of the strongest engines I have worked with. The server never errors out its always Unity. There is a steep learning curve if you haven't used Unity before. And even if you have used it you still get caught now and then with issues. That's just part of it. I would suggest to ask nicely on skype or in chat and I'm sure someone can help you with your problem. The community has been nothing but fantastic.

Take Thomas he has spent countless hour helping people and not getting a dime. There are good people here that are willing to help. If you get frustrated take a deep breath and walk a way for a day. Then come back! You'll do alot better.

 

Trust me on this, You can do great things with Atavism its just a matter of learning all the in and outs of it. and that takes a lot of time.

 

BTW.. I know Alan he's actually a nice guy that has helped a lot of people in the past as well, including myself.

 

You get more with Sugar...

[Skeeter135]

Then maybe the problem has to do with the starter package and / or using this not on unity pro. The "you'll get more with sugar..." can go both ways. I am the customer here. Haters asides, when you ask a question like, "how can I do x?" and get the response, "look at the tutorials". Then you go to the tutorials and watch them over and over and something still isn't working correctly there is a bug. Maybe it's my side like when I had problems with the mysql database and it was because I had mysql and xaamp both installed because of a tutorial I watched. When this did happen sooms was a great help. All this shows is that the tutorials need to be updated. This is why I but it in the feedback. Yes, maybe I did post the first message out of anger but then again let me ask you this: if you were told that you could do something by watching the tutorials and then spent hours trying to figure out what you did differently than the tutorial to make it not work you would be pissed too. This has come a long ways, yes I agree. and yes I agree that other engines make you code everything yourself like Hero Engine, then again Hero Engine comes with an actual server to be broadcast from and is $100 a year for one developer. I got this for a hobby if it takes off great, if not oh well.

 

I am not saying that Atavism is a bad engine. I understand that it is still in Beta. I knew that going in when I was skeptical of buying it in the first place. Instead of hating on someone, look at their point of view.

[bbautista]

THese guys are right.. you do get more with sugar... most of the problems with this software can be found on the forums or wiki to be honest. A lot is knowledge with Unity... (theres millions of tutorials online)

 

The only problem I had with this discussion is someone coming on here and telling someone they Cant do something. I have a huge problem with that. I believe if you are willing to learn and put time into something and wish patience you can learn anything. That is just what I believe in.

 

But he is right.. by the time you work on your map and do all the things to it. The devs will almost have all of the software completed. Focus on other things and not what you want right now. That is the best advise I can give you. You wont be able to throw a working MMO not even a small one together with this software in a few weeks, months .. it may take you a year even with full bugless software.. and faster if you had a team.

 

Trust me, I have gotten mad and ranted myself .. I just had to step away and do other things and kinda think about what I was doing or the errors I was getting.. and then came back to it. Many of the people on here has helped me with questions regardless if it was just a stupid question or not. If it was something that was a bug they would answer "we will look at it in the next patch"

 

So hang in there man...

[AlanGreyjoy]

Here's some advice my neighbor (a guy that taught me how to play golf) gave me when I was shopping like a mad man for new golf clubs.

 

"It's the Indian, not the bow".

 

True story.

 

Now.. you imagined your balls being bigger than they actually are. You stepped up to the plate, tried to take a swing, and now we are all going to strike you out.

 

You don't piss in someones kitchen and expect them to not get mad.

 

What I would do, is learn unity a little more.

 

This link is a prefect place. Bookmark it. Read it on the toilet. Wherever. But reading the ENTIRE manual is a must. I have.

http://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/UnityBasics.html

 

Now... I told you on the forums... And I ment it. Atavism is awesome and to buy it. You can do a lot with just the starter package too.

 

And Dakora is right. I have helped sooooo many people. Screen shared with them (multiple times for almost 2 hours) and I don't mind doing it! I love helping people.

Why? Because the world is starting to fill up with people like you. Self centered, egotistical, turd biscuits. Just like the guy that posted in the this EXACT section about the forum spam... "Until it's fixed, I won't post anymore"...... I mean... Who do you people think you are? Who the hell died and made you king? "I am the customer" attitude stopped working in the 90's buddy.

 

And you know what? THOSE TUTORIALS were written and recorded by a guy BEFORE he joined Atavism as a team member. He did them for free and out of the kindness of his heart... and then here you come. Like a shart in the middle of a movie theater.

 

Lastly;

 

You keep using the word hater..... I don't think it means, what you think it means. No one's hating on you.... wtf is there to hate about? Are we hating (jealous) that you can't use unity???

 

 

 

Lastley again;

 

You started this

[Skeeter135]

I have read the manual. Again you are missing the point and you will always miss the point of this. So with that said GOOD BYE. Alan you might mean well but please don't respond to my post.

[AlanGreyjoy]

I have read the manual. Again you are missing the point and you will always miss the point of this. So with that said GOOD BYE. Alan you might mean well but please don't respond to my post.

 

I'll respect your request.

[Netsun]

``most of the time says you need a plugin for it``

 

Ya sorry to say true thing ^^

 

And i think you mostly just need more skill in programin, you CANT make a game whitout any programing skill, sorry but it true.

 

If you think that work only 20$ i think you dont know all the work to make a java server. at 270$ for the source it like you pay 1 men 2$/hour to make that.

 

I have to chime in here.. This customer/developer asked a question.. you didnt answer his question.. basically what you did is you told him he CANT do something. I have to tell you that you have the wrong attitude here. You dont know what people can or cant do. I was told when i started this project that I CANT make models because I didnt know modeling software or im not a programmer and I didnt take years of college. I can model just as good as the next person now and it really didnt take me that long to learn. I am still learning from trial or error. Please stop discouraging people.

 

5 years ago people with your attitude also said.. you can not have a MMO.. its impossible. well here we are.. again please do not make this forum a way for you to discourage people or talk down on them because they do not have the skills that you feel you have. If you cant help anyone.. then dont respond.

 

my two cents whether you like it or not

 

I just say you you can read a book if you dont know how to read, you can learn and you dont need 5 years to learn evrything but alway ask for people to help you beacause you dont whant to do any effort it not the good way i have help a lot of people when only restart her computer solve the probleme... is it normal.... NO do soemthing like a reset should be 1 of the first thing you should do.

 

Creat a game for a full team whit high skill people need at last 2 years so if you whant to do evrything whitout any knoweldge ALONE no, you cant do it, creat a game (a MMO) need a team or frends. A community it not your personal debug team.

 

I'm in the mmo creation community since 2004 whit Konfuze ^^ SO i know how it work but just say it to buggy i cant do anything it not a good way to creat, Konfuze was in VB6 and they have bug so what i have do to solve it? I go to library and i buy a book about vb6 (70$).

 

Try and miss whay is the best way to learn so continue like that but when nothing work go outside take a beer and come back it work for me i look the probleme from a other view

 

And to finish it, I'm sorry it what i say Discourage you but i just true thing and my native language it not Englis. So some time (like in this sentense) i write thing whit a very basic english just the try to be understand .

[bbautista]

oh okay.. so according to your non english opinion i shouldnt buy the upgraded package cause i dont have your skills.. OK! i wont do that.. happy? matter fact why dont you use that as your marketing scheme... this is not the first time i have caught you trying to discourage people or making yourself look so much better and blaming it on your lack of english..

[Martin (Dragonsan)]

If You will let me I'll conclude this discussion.

 

Both sides are wrong

The truth is in the middle... and not most of the time, but always.

I'm a part of community since few months now, I knew that I need with my team new features that are not included in Atavism, that's why I bought Veteran license upgrade few days after starter one.

Lets make a theoretical assumption:

I'm a one person (coder, graphic, animator etc.) and I'm skilled with all requirements, can I make a simple, small MMO with Atavism standard version till 2.5 ?

The answer is no, as I said in my previous post, max level hard coded to 10, wrong stats calculations and without Veteran license You cannot change it. Basically You are not able to publish Your game with such problems.

That's why I think that he still should buy Veteran license and make a few code changes to see that there are no limits, only imagination makes them.

We don't know him and giving him the advises like make a level and don't focus on Atavism.... maybe he already has a level and he is waiting only for Atavism, we don't know that these are assumptions based on our knowledge and our experience but they may have or may have not be the clue in his "case".

Still I'm doing it in same way, because in my opinion Atavism needs improvements, so we are focusing on level design and other mostly graphical/animation things and with patient waiting for next and next release, which is improved a lot version after version.

I'm aware of some bugs, beta state of software and others should be aware what beta means, that's why patient and building community, helping others are so important in that stage. Core of Atavism is Neo, Sooms and Chasle but we are all part of it.

I said that few times and I haven't changed my opinion that Atavism team are doing great work with full competence, even that they are mostly over scheduled time, but it is normal in software business

To all of us with less skills, less hope... don't give up Your dreams, if Your dream is to make a second wow, You will build it, even if for others it won't be second wow, Your friends and You will play it like in wow, because sometimes cash is not so important as fun

Gaming business is like a roulette, You can make simple low graphic game like minecraft and win a lottery but on the other hand You can make a realistic game with full pro graphic, sounds, music and no one will play it, You need marketing or luck or better... both which is more important than features and graphics in game.

 

Lets support each other and make that community bigger and stronger that these Atavism Core could focus on most important things than on discussions like that one.

 

You know the old sentence, if there is something that is not possible to do then give it to someone who doesn't know that and he will do it.

[Dakora]

""max level hard coded to 10, wrong stats calculations and without Veteran license You cannot change it. Basically You are not able to publish Your game with such problems.?""

 

 

I don't think you understand. The level cap to 10 is not hard coded. you need to go in the Atavism plugin in unity and add your level s and how much exp to get to the next level. You can add 100000 levels if you want. There is nothing stopping you.

 

You will need to delete the levels in your data base if you want to run with no levels how ever.

[Netsun]

oh okay.. so according to your non english opinion i shouldnt buy the upgraded package cause i dont have your skills.. OK! i wont do that.. happy? matter fact why dont you use that as your marketing scheme... this is not the first time i have caught you trying to discourage people or making yourself look so much better and blaming it on your lack of english..

 

2 choice :

 

-1 Your are stupid

or

-2 You just mist understoud what i say.

 

So i think it the choice number 2.

 

I NEVER SAY NEVER dont buy a Vet license, the only time i talk about that i say: It Better to learn java beford buy it. It like buy a Spanish book whitout know how to read spanish. Or buy a card whitout licence, you can do it but it not very usefull.

 

And if you have probleme whit me come whe can talk in privat and if you whant whe gonna do it in french so you gonna understand me.... o whait sorry you dont talk french and you dont gonna do any EFFORT to talk in french, like i do to write in english.

 

FOr me if you whant to do a very costum thing in Atavis you need A vet licence and knoweldge in Java/c# and a team, you dont have team.... to bad you can try but i dont think you can publish it one day.

 

Tips 101: How creat a team?

 

Find people in internet who do nice job, talk to her about your project, ask him to come to help you: 30% of time he will say yes so if he say no try again.

[SirChandisKover]

I just can't resist posting.

 

It's Beta. That should be enough said, but think about it.

 

I have had a game concept originally developed in the late 90's, which was the reason I started learning HTML! The concept remains unique to this day, and I hope that I might be able to make a little money with it eventually.

 

I have watched the industry grow and kept learning and adding to my skills, programming and modelling, but I do not claim to be highly skilled - I have to provide for a family, so time is precious.

 

I was very excited about Multiverse, and had it up and running a few years back, but Aha!, the amount of work needing to be done on it to make it work for me was daunting.

 

I have been working with Unity for a long time, building a world. I went back to that work, while continuing to look around for an acceptable server set-up.

 

Then I found these guys.

 

I have been waiting for a long time for them to institute the authoritative server portion, and I continue to wait patiently for that upgrade. (Obviously, I am starting to get real excited about that, as it approaches).

 

I know what these guys have had to do to accomplish what they have done. It is an AMAZING job. The amount of work involved REALLY is STAGGERING, and they should get commended and PRAISED continually.

 

I have not even purchased the basic as of yet, because I am waiting for authoritative server, and will buy the Veteran immediately at that time. That is what I'll need. The price of $270 is fantastic. Meanwhile I continue to develop a world and continue modelling and learning.

 

I have not posted often on the boards, but the few times I have, the response to my questions have been 1.) Fast and 2.) Helpful.

 

With all that said, my comment to the OP is:

 

Working with programs can be frustrating, everybody knows.

 

But this program DOES WORK, as a reading of these boards reveals.

 

What one man can do, another can do. Keep trying. (Man was it frustrating to get Multiverse running - but what satisfaction to succeed!)

 

If you are really stuck, these guys are extremely helpful to those who explain their problem and politely ask for help (again - these boards show this to be true).

 

Understand that these guys have a whole lot on their plates, and have spent countless hours on the project. Some of the guys helping out gratis.

 

Imagine spending that length of time on something, and someone comes along and says it's garbage! You might get a bit irritated yourself, especially when there are others (many others) who have been successful with it.

 

A rant is likely to return a rant.

 

A question is likely to return an answer.

[SirChandisKover]

And to respond to the inevitable -

 

These guys should not make tutorialson every upgrade. They need to concentrate on developing the package.

[Martin (Dragonsan)]

""max level hard coded to 10, wrong stats calculations and without Veteran license You cannot change it. Basically You are not able to publish Your game with such problems.?""

 

 

I don't think you understand. The level cap to 10 is not hard coded. you need to go in the Atavism plugin in unity and add your level s and how much exp to get to the next level. You can add 100000 levels if you want. There is nothing stopping you.

 

You will need to delete the levels in your data base if you want to run with no levels how ever.

 

 

No it isn't in 2.5 but apparently You don't understand that it was hard coded till 2.4 included which I mentioned that clearly in sentence, same with bad stats calculation of items.

I'm a one person (coder, graphic, animator etc.) and I'm skilled with all requirements, can I make a simple, small MMO with Atavism standard version till 2.5 ?

 

In 2.5 You can do this and it's working, but in 2.4 You could make a change in Atavism plugin, but... You weren't able to get more level than 10, because.... because it was hard coded